Again The Estes Parkian must intervene to tell the whole story as the Trail Gazette and Free Rag provide only a Town Hall mouth piece obviously slanted to the oligarchy message. What really is going on is political and very damaging to Estes Park over time. I believe that your local journalists are obligated to give this community the complete story when such on going controversies develop, but they never do.
So for the other side of the story:
The topic again is land use, a developer is planning to jam more second home condos into the Estes Valley and the local populace is screaming bloody murder, again.
Typically we copy the offending articles here to share, but in this case these articles were the same boring prose from town staff excusing their actions. They killed a lot of trees and wasted a lot of our sales tax money coming up with that crap, printed to “educate us simpletons.”
A very accurate summary of both articles is “our zoning laws allow it so tough shit, shut up and learn to live with it.”
We are all familiar with Mr. Josephs tendency to butcher the rules for the right people down zoning, height variances et. al.. I found Randy’s new right hand woman, Jacqueline’s, simplification of complex land use the most offensive, “It’s just really complicated babe.”
Who drives the bus here in Estes Park? The Citizens of the Valley or Developers or Town Staff?
Jacqueline, I know you are new and all - so let me simplify a very complex political arena for you and caution you to test the depth of the waters before you take your head first dive. Estes Park is a Colorado statutory community. We are bound to operate our community according to the generic Colorado Revised Statutes. The same land use that is applied in Calhan, Cheraw, Hooper, Kiowa, Nucla, Romeo and Ophir Colorado is applied to Estes Park. By law Estes Park had to create a comprehensive land use plan, which by law is generic to Colorado Revised Statutes. Estes Park does not have the authority to create land use laws that are appropriate to a community that is a gateway community to a National Park Wilderness. Estes Park has allowed developers to have their way with this national park gateway community and butchered the nation’s perception of us all. The town is so intent on protecting the rights of all the states statutory towns and developers they have forgotten who drives the Estes Park bus, the citizens
Before I get on a rant please explain this to me Estes Park, so I can explain it to Jacqueline. In a national travel magazine (National Geographic Traveler - which our town buys print ad space from) rated all the North American Gateway communities a panel consisting of the people listed herein:
Stewart Allen, Environmental psychologist Nan Anderson, ArchitectArden Anderson, Recreation specialistHarry E. Antoniou, Tour operatorDr. Greg Ashworth, GeographerWanetta Ayers, Economic development specialistKenneth F. Backman, Ph.D., Tourism professorRandal G. Baker, Tourism geographer Dr. Seyhmus Baloglu, ProfessorDr. Michal Bardecki, GeographerBrenda Barrett, Heritage area coordinatorDr. Sue Beeton, Tourism lecturerPaul Bennett, WriterWendy M. Berhman, Environmental managerRajiv Bhartari, ForesterPhillip Bimstein, Composer/Former mayorNorman A. Bishop, Interpretive naturalist Kevin Blake, GeographerMichael A. Blazey, Ph.D., EducatorSuzanne E. Bott, PhD., AICP, Land plannerDr. Gillian Bowser, EcologistKelly S. Bricker, PhD., Tourism researcherRobert S. Bristow, GeographerWarren Lee Brown, Park plannerG. Wesley Burnett, GeographerBob Burns CEC, AAC, Culinary professionalLisa M. Butler Harrington, GeographerDave Butler, RPBio, RPF, Sustainable tourism specialistLinda Damron Caldwell, Cultural tourism specialistGabriela Chavarria, BiologistJoseph S Chen, ProfessorDoug Clark, Former park wardenTom Clynes, Author and journalistJeffrey H. Cohen, Cultural anthropologistDavid Cole, Wilderness researcherJim Collinson, Strategy consultantJohn Colton, Sustainable tourism specialistDouglas C. Comer, Ph.D., ArchaeologistDr. John Confer, Tourism ProfessorJay Cooke, Travel editorSuzanne Copping, Heritage conservationistKevin Crockett, Tourism plannerDr. Stephen F. Cunha, GeographerBrenda Davidson-Shaddox, Writer/photographerDanita Delimont, Travel photography specialistChristine B. Denny, Environmental communications consultantKeith Dewar, Professor of tourismJerry Dick, Heritage plannerDr Robert Dilley, University professorJoseph Domask, EducatorGeorge Duffy, Tour operatorSteve Durrant, Landscape architectDavid L. Edgell, Sr., PhD., Tourism specialist/consultantDeborah L. Elliott-Fisk, BiogeographerMarcus L. Endicott, Travel writerBelinda Esham, Forestry consultantDonald A. Falvey, Park manager Virginia Fay, EconomistEvan Ferrari, Parks program directorThor Flognfeldt, Geographer Dr. Joseph P. Flood, Recreation professorCharles Flynn, Riverfront redevelopment expertLee Foster, Travel writer/photographerBob Garrison, Nature tourism consultantRaymond Gehman, Freelance photographerMaurizio Giannone, Tourism geographerAlison M. Gill, GeographerCharlene Glacy, Travel photographyCharles Goeldner, Tourism consultantBrian Goodall, GeographerWilliam L. Graf, Professor of geographyDr. Jim Gramann, Social scientistMarcus Grant, Landscape architectSteven M. Graves, Geography professorAndrej Gregorc, MA., GeographerStephen Griswold, Landscape architectSven Haakanson, Ph.D., Cultural museum studiesC. Michael Hall, Geographer/mobility specialistCheryl Hargrove, Tourism consultantJohn Harrington, Jr., GeographerDr. Donald E. Hawkins, Tourism plannerRobert G. Healy, EconomistGregory Heming, Ph.D., Literary ecologistDavid Herbert, GeographerRonald Hiebert, EcologistJoseph M. Hnatiuk, EcologistKirk Hoessle, Tour operatorPeter R. Hoffman, Ph.D., Geographer/plannerSteven Hollenhorst, ProfessorGary Hovinen, Geographer/tourism specialistJohn Hull, Ph D., Tourism consultantDr. John D. Hunt, Tourism specialist/consultantGlen Hvenegaard, Geography professorDimitri Ioannides, Planning professorThomas J. Iverson, Ph.D., EconomistEdward L. Jackiewicz, GeographerKanneth Johnson, Biologist (tour operator)Karen L. Johnson, Travel consultantRussell Johnson, Travel journalist, consultantRussell Johnson, Tourism media producerKenneth Anthony Johnson Diaz, HidroBiologistClaudia Jurowski, PhD., Tourism professorJerold D Kappel CFRE, Sustainable tourism facilitatorSabra Kauka, Cultural specialistRoger Kaye, Wilderness specialistMaryam Khan Ph.D., Educator-professorDr Audrey Kobayashi, GeographerRhonda Kranz, EcologistPaul Labovitz, Conservation plannerKristin M. Lamoureux, Tourism educatorSam Lankford, Tourism planner/educatorDr. Laura Jane Lawton, Tourism specialistRaynald Harvey Lemelin, Environmental sociologistSarah Leonard, Ecotourism consultantAndrew Lepp, University professorDavid W. Lime, GeographerPatrick Long, Professor of sustainable tourismDr. Edward W. Manning, Sustainable tourism consultantDr A M Mannion, Geographer, authorLawal M. Marafa, Ph.D., Geographer, tourism scholarSteven R. Martin, Professor (resource recreation)Galen R. Martin, GeographerLisa Mastny, Environmental editorShelley S. Mastran, GeographerColleen May, Travel marketing researcherKyle McCarthy, Tourism consultantStephen F. McCool, University scientistDaisann McLane, Travel writerEd McMahon, Community planner Dr. Barbara McNicol, Geography instructor Bill Meade, ConsultantMary C. Means, Heritage tourism developmentMichael Melford, PhotographerCynthia C. Messer, Tourism specialistMike Meyer, Travel writerKlaus J. Meyer-Arendt, Coastal geographerNicholas P. Miller, Noise control consultantMark Miller, Travel writerSimon Milne, Tourism professorLisle S. Mitchell, GeographerDr. Christian Montes, Geographer Duarte B. Morais, University professorThomas More, Recreation researcherKathy Moyer Dragon, Tour operatorNeil Munro, Forester/GeographerTracy John Mullins, GeographerLarry Neal, Consultant - leisure educationSanjay K. Nepal, Tourism geographerChristian Newman, M.S., M.B.A., Environmental consultantNorma Nickerson, Ph.D., Tourism researcherRonald Nickerson, PhD., Recreation professorEileen Nivera, Park PlannerReed F. Noss, Ph.D., Conservation biologistArq. Eduardo J. Nycander v.M., Ecotourism tour operatorAndrew Dean Nystrom, Adventure travel consultantBob O'Connor, CTP., Travel plannerDuane K. Okamoto, Economic development consultantCynthia Orlando, Park Manager Dr. James M. Parrent, ArchaeologistCarol Patterson, Tourism consultantJoe Pavelka, College instructor Sally Pearce, HistorianGordon Phillips, Tourism consultantJohn H. Plantinga, Tourism management educatorClaudia A. Polley, Museum planning consultantDr Julianna Priskin, GeographerPaul Pritchard, Park advocateLuther Propst, ConservationistJeff Rennicke, Travel writer Bob Reynolds, Retired park managerDaniel M. Rice, Non-Profit CEOJ. Michael Robbins, Tourism consultantBetsy Robinson, EcologistPolly Rodriguez, Tourism education Abigail Rome, Ecotourism consultant Hugh Rose, PhotographerAlvin Rosenbaum, Tourism consultantJoel Sartore, PhotographerNancy Schamu, Historic preservationIngrid E. Schneider, ProfessorDr. Daniel Scott, GeographerRick Searle, GeographerMartin Segger, Art historianIndriani Setiawati, Ecotourism specialistDouglas K. Shifflet, Market research-travel Craig R. Sholley, Wildlife conservationistJohn Shores, Biodiversity specialistScott Slocombe, Environmental plannerRichard B. Smith, Protected area consultantJohn M. Snyder, Tourism specialistJohn Splettstoesser, Tourism consultantScott W. Standish, Tourism plannerTaylor V. Stein, Associate professorWilliam Stewart, Park planning academicPatricia A. Stokowski, PH.D., Social ScientistHarold Stone, Environmental planning professorJamie Sweeting, Conservation tourism specialistDixie Swenson, Heritage development consultantDr. Guy S. Swinnerton, Parks specialistRonald R. Switzer, Park ranger - superintendentPeter Tarlow, Tourism specialistLisa Testoni, Environmental plannerDallen J. Timothy, PhD., GeographerRussell K. Tippett, EducatorRon Tipton, Parks advocateWilliam Trousdale, Sustainable-tourism plannerDr. David Truly, Tourism geographerJacquelyn Tuxill, Conservation consultantDr Louise Twining-Ward, Tourism resource consultantsMuzaffer Uysal, Tourism specialistCarroll Van West, HistorianDavid L. Wall, GeographerTim Wallace, Applied anthropologistGrace A. Wang, Natural resource policyDavid Weaver, Tourism specialistMr. Jonathan Wessell, Geographer/travelerDuane West, Park ManagerTom Wheaton, RPA, ArchaeologistDr. Dave White, Environmental studies professorKim Whytock, Sustainability strategistEd Wiken, EcologistCarolyn Wild, Ecotourism consultantJennifer J. Wilhoit, Ph.D., Researcher/educatorPaul F. Wilkinson, Tourism geographerDr. Christopher Wilkinson, GeographerMark Willuhn, Tourism specialistCary Wolinsky, National Geographic photographerLochen Wood, Geographer/plannerPamela Wright, Parks educatorTerence Young, GeographerHarry C. Zinn, Park management educator
The consensus opinion of Estes Park:
Facing TroubleMajor problems confront 13 parks; often it's unsuitable gateway development.
19. Rocky Mountain National Park COLORADO (Score: 56)"Deep blue glacial lakes and majestic mountain views" in a "totally overstressed" park. "Traffic, condo developments, and noise around the sappy, touristy town of Estes Park lessen appeal."
We brought this article to your attention in the summer of 2005.
The citizens of the Valley do not want more condo development; the national experts listed herein think you are a blight area to the Park. But we continue to rush head long into the abyss of second home condo development on every square inch of available land.
Why? Because our comprehensive land use plan and zoning laws allow it? Excuse me if I choke on that one because your town staff invested eight years and untold stack of our dollars changing one line in one Colorado Law to allow a statutory town to collect a lodging tax. The town is juggling several law suites as we speak, because they conveniently ignore laws and change the ones they do not like. They must like this one, why? Look who is jamming things into peoples pockets before you answer that one.
This is as plane as the nose on your face, our town government is broke and it no longer serves the citizen of Estes Park. Jacqueline and Josesph said it: you do not like it, the nation thinks its inappropriate for our location, but the rules allow for a developer to throw in a bunch of condos, develop a HOA and throw in substandard infrastructure that future generations will have to contend with. If thats not broke than define broke.
STOP IT!
Change the rules. Home Rules. Create land use that is appropriate to a gateway to a wilderness area. Change and growth will occur, but we need laws that are appropriate to the Estes Valley not Collobran, Colorado.
Monday, September 17, 2007
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36 comments:
What about the new blight study? Did you see all of the photos of the "affected" area's? Looks like epura will have alot of "work" to do in the next 25 years.
So one simple question.
What do you tell the people who own
land which is zoned mutli family or condo. Do you tell them sorry you cant develop? Can you say law suit.
Let me know what went on at the planning commission meeting today (9/18 @1:30), hopefully lots of you attended, since this was the major subject of the meeting.
I attended the P&Z meeting today and there was not one person who talked about condos.
Dear ESTES PARKIAN:
You continue to raise excellent issues for discussion. Although a good number of intellectually impaired don't profit from the opportunity to express their views under a "safe harbour" forum, some of us do appreciate not having to expect censure from the local press and government.
Your recent posting on the Condo building wildfire suffers a bit from rough edged writing. It is too important to allow diversion due to grammar mistakes.
My suggestions for improvement:
1. First type your editorial using the MSWord program.
2. Use the Word version of Spellcheck, making the spelling, grammar, and punctuation correction aids it discovers, to improve the essay.
3. Highlight the whole document and Copy it.
4. When you are ready to post it, merely Paste the corrected copy into the designated area, for your essay.
That will leave a mark
I emailed the excellent suggestion about about essat righting to John Cordsen.
EP, you never answered my question. What do you tell the people who own property that want to build condos?
You cannot tell people they cannot develop their property. It's called property owner rights. You of all people should know this.
If your going to continue to complain at least get your facts straight. Oh i forgot you are the one who is law suit crazy.
Get a life
I have a life
REALY! What a shame. maybe it will get better. Meanwhile, try reading, practice using the dictionary, turn off the sitcoms you rush home to each night, a few less PBRs, and Bud Lites, work on the potbelly, and give the old lady a hand once in awhile.
Sorry, I missed an l in really. I didn't practice what I preach! See what I mean? Even the great make mistakes. But they admit it.
great in your own mind.
Dear "Great..."
Thank you for your last comment. Most of us forget that there is really no serious competition in this world. Your trite lowlife reply is but an example of how many little minds flood the common population.
A wise man once said that the population is segmented into the predictable 80/20 rule. That is, eighty percent don't really matter, we only have to focus on the remaining twenty percent.
Since your peanut brain can't come up with anything better than "great in your own mind," you surely don't offer any threat to the rest of us.
Back to the couch, Bud Lite, and snacks, redneck.
Listen to yourself. You quote someone who says that 80% of the population really doesn’t matter.
I suggest that someone who thinks they are in the 20% and have to tell people they are in the 20% surely live in a dream land in their own mind and really don’t matter to the remaining 80%.
Don't underestimate the masses Mr. Mcdreamy. They will be here long after your 20%.
Happy dreams.
Unfortunately you are correct. The 80/20 rule has persisted for ages, and will do so forever. That's what makes the odds so good! Where do you fit?
This rule is what makes politicians happy, because they know 80% don't even care!
Did you happen to see Patricks editorial in the paper yesterday.
The only way i can think of slowing down development in our town is to change the building codes.
Make the codes state the the buildings need to be much more mountain like. Not apartment like.
This wont stop the construction but it will the area more pleasent to look at.
You cant change multi family or comercial/accomodation zoning just because we dont want more buildings. This would bring law many law suits and i would be willing to bet the town would loose these. Its called property oweners rights.
So like Patrick says make sure you show up to the town board/P&Z meetings and express your wants. Dont complain just give them ideas to work from. You have to show up in mass. While Patricks comments are good in the paper it will take more than Patrick to make this change happen.
Oh by the way sorry to you people who care more about spelling and grammer.I care more about the message than the spelling. And to the guy who thinks he is in the great 20% please go away you add no value. The 80% have spoken and we just dont care about you.
So Mr. EP and Mr. Mcdreamy How do you bring the 80% together to get the code changed?
So Mr. EP and Mr. Mcdreamy How do you bring the 80% together to get the code changed?
Sorry pal, the 80% HAVEN'T SPOKEN,
that is the problem. If you mean they have spoken by their lack of action, well, I guess you are ablsolutely right! If they say they are happy with lawlessness, getting ripped off, no change in the future of the town, so be it.
To the guy who says the 20% part should just go away: No way! we're the ones ripping the 80% off! Not only that, you allow it, ignore it, and even encourage it.
You say you care more about the message than you do the spelling and grammar? I have a few contracts I would like to have you sign. The messages are great!
Its to bad you missed the point.
I am not your pal
As you call him Mr. Mcdreamy he sure is adding no value.
It's your money.
By the way...Is is there a difference between "having pizza with the enemy" and having NY strip with the enemy?"
These people must think everyone is blind! They can't even hide their secrecy. Children playing hide and seek are more clever than your leading bullies! It's astounding how utterly stupid he is!
It's your money! Your corrupt government, your sleeping non-voting 80%.
No, i'm not your pal. I have more pride and dignity than to even associate with you.
BUT! It's your money! And you're so happy to let them tske it. That being the case, so be it. I hope this will at least become a charming little mountain ghost town for visitors to see in future years, after the RMNP is returned to a wildlfe preserve, and Estes is a LAST CHANCE gasoline stop.
It's a shame Mr. Mcdreamy has brought himself to a new low. That
is to say it's all about money. Now that we have determined you are not my pal please don’t suggest that I am in the future. With that said it is funny you mention you have more dignity and pride to associate with me. The question is why do you keep associating with me on this blog? I suggest you put your emotions back in your pocket and take a look in the mirror. Ask your self the question is your complaint about money, corrupt gov. or do you just enjoy giving personal attacks to other people?
There is one thing worse than the the 80% you complain about and that is the very small % who just want to complain and not do anything about the problem. You and the other readers can determine where you fit.
You revealed just what I needed to know.
1. I am and have been part of the 20% who does something about it. I don't just make a lot of noise, without real and effective action. Thank you very much.
2. I continue to encourage this relationship with you because the usual publc venues available in closed societies don't exist here. This press is a solid part of the establishement, and unless a sparse few of us can gain access to the public, we have to bait at least one of your kind, on a blog, who will respond. Luckily you took the bait, and in spite of your lack of sophistication, you serve an excellent tool. You are a valuable person to this community. You should be proud of the fact that you are a key participant in the only FREE AND OPEN MEDIA/PRESS
available to this community! That is in the true Democratic American tradition many of us put the uniform on for. Some of us didn't come back. Some would't go, but insist on the rights we gained for them.
3. You say it's all about money. Well, well, well, DUH!!! Isn't it all about Money? Your money, which quickly becomes the Town's money, which quickly becomes their friend's money, and quickly gets kicked back to whom? You? NO, I don't think so.
4. You are correct, I love to kick sand into the faces of crooks and bullies, start a fight, and just kick ass! And kick ass I do. You should know.
5. There is nothing wrong with emotions. They are essential to survival, especially if they are under some control. The most successful people use them to make good decisions. Positive use of emotions fill our history books. Three noticeable negative uses were by Baudek recently at town council, Habecker, Habecker again, Habecker again, and Jeffrey-Clark. Others who did and did not make the news, but were significant, were Widmer, Tucker, Hall, "Justin," Lois Smith, Paul the 49er, Judges Williams, Nottinger, and various legal counsels associated with the town and individual listed above.
6. No thank you for letting the other readers decide where I fit. That is like letting the Al Quida decide if Christianity is right for the Habecker family. Don't forget, MOST PEOPLE JUST DON'T CARE!
Keep up the good work, you are performing just how we want and need you to do.
To late the majority has already decided where you fit.
It is clear now that you think it is all about money. All i can say is i feel sorry for you. It takes money to make you happy.
Good luck with your emotions.
At last, someone speaks for the majority. How did you get that monstrous assignment? It couldn't have been by vote. They don't vote!
All I think about is Money? That would be boring. I think about many things. Money is one. If you don't think about money, give me yours, and I'll think about it for you. If you don't, that's probably why you don't need it, and already gladly give it to the crooks. What is that saying? "A fool and his money are soon parted?"
What is this "good luck with your emotions," thats pretty lame, even from a hillbillly redneck.
I want more condos,
I want more violation of Constitutional law,
I want more cops is government,
I want more Habekcers, Dorlas, Waynes, Loises, Baudeks, Whites, Fishmans. Doylans, and of course more EPURA for our blighted Kayak river and Performance halls. We really should build Lois a wedding hall to compete with that nast hotel.
Last but not least. can we get more shuttles? Maybe a town run light-rail? Then the parking lots can be used to build more Condos!
Once again only complaints and insults no solutions.
Have a nice day.
Why does this guy only think in the past? He is still compaining about the rafting course. Guess what it was a failure get over it and get involoved to make sure it does not happen again.
EXACTLY!
i GET OFF MY ASS AND VOTE. DO YOU?
Estes Park has a difficult situation when it comes to development.
Since Estes is a statutory community the Estes Valley Land Use Plan was a product of the Colorado legislature. The people of Estes did not vote on it although there was a time period when their input was asked for.
When the Town recently tried to change the A-accommation zoning to be more restrictive on condo use, it was very confrontational and Mayor Baudek back down because he knew that any change would probably bring a lot of lawsuits.
So I think there is very little that can be done to dramatically change the land use plan.
Estes Park voters turned down the chance for home rule. At that time the Town was not supportative of that taking place.
So, there are very few options for making changes and I think the only process that will be helpful will be going forward.
Home rule needs to be brought up again for a possible vote. Of course, this will take time.
The board of adjustment should not be giving out as many variances as they do but then they have set a precedent for those who will come now to ask for future variances.
You can go on and on about corruption, incompetence and continue to put the blame there
Much of the blame belongs to the voters of Estes Park who have not looked carefully at their representatives in government and what they stand for. Also, they missed their home rule opportunity to take charge of their own city destiny.
There is a lot that is taking place that the people of Estes are just going to have to live with.
This guy about summed it up.
That guy is wrong. Here's your problem right here! Oh well it is corrupt what a shame.
You do not have to just put up with it.
We took one quick look at home rule, communities take as many as six attempts before home rule became a reality. He is wrong to assume that it is up to town hall to detemine if the trustees and town staff want to change the rules. It is a determination of the citizens,,not town staff!
Of coarce things are changing EP lets people know what gives and what can be done about it, not just oh well isn't that just to bad. EP brought the mayors down zone plan to our attention.
Never give up on us EP!!
That guy summed up you politics Estes Park.
Bend over, take it and shut up.
What is the mayors down zone plan anyway?
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